In response to Kazvorpal
Please excuse my tone. I don’t know everything, but below is my rationale for not thinking there is any progress in the GOP:
Perhaps you are right. Paul did not endorse anyone, overtly or covertly, in my view. But that doesn’t mean his mind can’t be changed.
Progress in the GOP?
You mean like Goldwater and Reagan (good rhetoric, bad record) made progress? How long did that last?
You mean like Ron Paul’s own campaign staff stabbing him in the back in the things that they say?
You mean Rand Paul (I would have as much trouble voting for Rand as I would Johnson) and Mike Lee who endorsed Romney before he won? Or DeMint who endorsed Romney but was too cowardly to actually say the word “endorse”?
Or perhaps you mean all the rules that the establishment made even worse at the convention in spite of the best efforts by the Paul camp to make them better.
Or maybe the platform that will not be followed.
No, sir, I think this progress is completely a myth. The harder the Paul people try to take over the party, the harder those already in charge will try to purge them.
The GOP, like the Whigs and like the Federalists must be cast into the abyss before this country can have any meaningful changes. It is not able to be, nor does it deserve to be saved.
If you don’t believe me, perhaps you will answer me these few things:
Will Romney or Obama win? I am thinking it will be Obama.
If Romney wins do you think he and the establishment will start to go easy on liberty-minded people in the GOP? I don’t.
Do you think Romney will reverse anything? I don’t.
If he doesn’t, do you think the GOP will be able to stop the hemorrhaging from its ranks that will inevitably occur? I don’t. Not unless they deiced to let Ron Paul or some one very similar to him reshape it. Which they would have to do regardless of whether he made any progress in it or not, regardless of what other tickets he ran on. Neither major party has what it takes to reverse any of the bad things going on. Even if there is “progress”, it won’t matter, because the GOP will have destroyed itself before the liberty movement even has another chance.
And if Obama wins, the GOP will lose even more credibility. They staked their entire reputation, their very being on Romney not being another McCain.
And if Romney wins and keeps things afloat like Bush did after the dot-com burst, he will win re-election. Instead of four years to screw everyone over, he will have eight.
I think the progress has been in people themselves, the grassroots. But within the GOP, it is only skin deep.
Of course, if Ron Paul decides against this, many Ron Paul supporters will not be supporting Johnson. I don’t really blame them, as I would have trouble doing so as well. In which case we will be able to keep what little progress has been made. But it won’t do anything.
I am not “giving up on” the GOP. The GOP’s fate is already set in stone.
The Libertarian Party is corrupt. I agree with you. It is loaded with utilitarians and public rent seekers. But I guarantee you any progress you make with it will go deeper and last longer than any “progress” you make with the GOP.
That is not to say that Ron Paul shouldn’t have run in the GOP. It has served him and us and the movement very well. Without it, no one would have heard of him.
For the record, I absolutely am NOT voting for Johnson without one of the major concessions I am pushing for. Here is a comment I saw on the Daily Paul that I absolutely agree with:
I’m only voting for Johnson if he picks up Paul as part of his team. I like Johnson but there are just too many things he doesn’t quite get or is not yet clear on. For example, he supports humanitarian military intervention. So do I if it is done Spanish-Civil War or Letters of Marque style. Gary has not stated clearly how he would go about this. Also, he may be a civil libertarian, but his support for free markets seems limited to a very utilitarian point of view, which effects his view on just about everything, not just economics. A Paul as VP (not implausible even at this late hour) or cabinet official would ideally have Gary’s ear and would hopefully help to steer him in the right direction. Until I see something like this happen, I have as much reason to vote for Gary as I do either Obama or Romney, ie, none at all. That is not to say he is the same as them, but just that he is different enough from an ideal candidate to satiate my conscience. Maybe that is selfish of me, but I can not vote against my conscience, even if the consequences are a Obama-reelection or a Romney election.
And in response to one of Kazvorpal’s posts on the Jay Leno “big announcement” and what Paul; actually said and meant.
I distrusted this rumor from the beginning. There was no source. But I held out hope and mentioned the possibility. Paul’s statements are what they are: honest, but diplomatic. He is not running any more, so he didn’t have to spill his guts, even though everyone was hoping he would do just that and more.
I think the best thing to do is to take his words at face value. But also to put them in context. He did not say who he was voting for. Nor did he announce a third party run or make any endorsements. But that does not mean all of this is final. At this stage it would be pure fantasy to expect Paul to win as a third party presidential candidate or a write in candidate. But in this small window of time, we should weigh every option and not just assume the GOP will somehow succumb to the liberty movement’s demands, just because it has made a few (very FEW) inroads.
I have no faith in the GOP. They are anathema to me. The Liberty movement will pry control from its cold dead fingers before the GOP relents to any reform of substance. It has been around for 150 years and has always been the way it is. Harding and Coolidge made inroads into the mercantilist corporatist corrupt party of Lincoln, McKinley, and Roosevelt. They were destroyed by Hoover and what little progress that was left was done-in by Eisenhower and Nixon. Goldwater made some progress as well. His own party rejected him and his legacy was finished off by Nixon and Ford. Reagan talked a good talk. He may have even meant well. While in office, what little progress he made was wiped out by the Bushes.
This will continue to happen until the day the GOP collapses under its own weight. The blood on its hands and the money in its pockets counts for too much for them to just turn around and say they love liberty all of a sudden. The United States will not get past this gloomy stage until the day the GOP and its leadership implodes.